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By Jared McCullough

Many say a leader is born, but I say leaders are made. A leader is made by the decisions he or she has made in their life that has made them the person they are today. More importantly they must use these life choices and learn that not everything is going to go their way in life. When life throws a wrench into your plan you must overcome and adapt. Whether that be a total breakdown of supply or simply an uncooperative team member. A true leader is defined by 5 things.

RESPECT-A true leader has a common respect for his colleagues. Respect is a highly valued commodity and is very important in any environment. The leader will give respect to gain some from the people they are overseeing. This allows a more comfortable environment and tends to be more productive. The most important thing in terms of respect is that a leader chooses the general direction of the situation but doesn’t micromanage his fellow workers.

ABILITY TO LEAD-When a group of people encounter a problem with no means of overcoming it, the leaders are revealed. Leaders will step up to the plate and guide the group through the challenge. However it isn’t just stepping up when needed, but being able to see a problem and take action to fix it. A leader must have the ability to communicate what needs done in an easy to understand and comprehensive way. This eliminates confusion and frustration in the group. It can also inspire people to do better or drive them to keep going.   

LEAD BY EXAMPLE-Many leaders tend to just stand above others and tell them what to do. This not only can cause a negative reaction to the leader but will lead to confusion and cause a lack of efficiency. True leaders will show what needs to be done without having to be asked. In some situations the leader will start the work and finish with the people they are leading. The best example is that of military officers. There are multiple times in history where a military unit is pinned down under fire and the officers leads the charge into certain death or defeat but end up achieving a win after his soldiers followed him to take the fight to the enemy.

VISION- The final thing a true leader has is a vision. A vision that blazes the path and innovates to improve the current situation. This brings about new ideas that can potentially lead to great things. A leader isn’t afraid to fail because he will have the audacity to persevere, overcome, and learn from that failure. To take his idea to the next level and if that fails, so be it. He will keep trying till he is out of options. At that point he knows when to quit.

So a true leader respects those he leads and leads with confidence. He leads by example and use his vision to advance his ideas to new levels. He fails hard with a risk only to succeed later and inspires others with perseverance. Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. 


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What is Rockettech?


Rockettech exists to prepare students for a future they cannot predict by providing opportunities to develop communication, collaboration, and real world ambiguous problem solving. Amidst an education system that prepares students to simply follow directions rather than create and innovate, Rockettech aims to inspire students, administrators, and policy makers to change the way they do things.



Students are taught a foundation of tech skills in multimedia and programming in a just-in-time format to prepare them for real world clients and projects in the community.Through a series of fast-paced simulations of professional scenarios, students are equipped with intangible skills that prepare them to interact with real clients. Initially, students are given the option of having Mr. Suter “stand-by” and sit-in on a face to face client meeting or phone call while the student does their best to direct the show. Subsequent meetings are entirely scheduled and executed by the student, with only distant observations by Mr. Suter.



Rockettech provides web and video production services for businesses and organizations in exchange for donations to the club. With the income, Rockettech is also able to support student-driven service projects, purchase equipment upgrades, take students to conferences, and otherwise reward student efforts.


Web design services have ranged from $250 - $3000 per project and include the setup of web hosting, content management system site design, and the training of the client to administer the website. Once the client is comfortable upkeeping the site, responsibility is then completely transferred to the client. Sites also include 3 months of “custom video tutorials” for the client to resolve any recurring difficulties for the client.


Video production has ranged from $250-$1200, and include storyboarding, onsite filming, and professional editing in Adobe Premiere and After Effects. Videos are delivered as files and include posting to YouTube for distribution over social media.



Rockettech was founded by Mr. Mark Suter and 5 burgeoning students in June of 2013. For 2 years, Rockettech activities took place during Mr. Suter’s conference period as “independent study” for students. In 2015, Rockettech became a for-credit class. All high school students are welcomed even if they can’t take the class, by attending bi-weekly meetings, attending functions, and participating in the ongoing “company Google Hangout Chat”. Students discover early in any of Mr. Suter’s classes that failure is encouraged and expected. Rockettech’s motto of “Fail Harder. Fail Faster, Fail Often” is referenced nearly daily by both students and Mr. Suter when either hesitate to take a risk, iterate quickly, or persevere through difficulty.



Mr. Suter can be reached at

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This week my job has been to make phone calls to past clients to get feedback from them. This doesn’t seem to be a difficult task to most people. However, I am very self-conscious in situations especially when they require communication in a formal setting. Where some teachers may have asked for a volunteer to do this type of assignment, Mr. Suter asked me specifically knowing my discomfort with things such as talking on the telephoneb2ap3_thumbnail_destini.jpg


Earlier this year, I actually had to take a phone call because I was the only one available at that moment in time, and I felt overwhelmed and very anxious about it. During the conversation on the phone, I had felt that I hadn’t come across as professional, and I tore myself up for it.That is my fear every time I talk to anyone. I feel insecure and every flaw is amplified in my head. It is a social anxiety that I face on a daily basis. Don’t get me wrong, if I know you and am comfortable with you, I can talk to you easily and all is well. It’s when I don’t know the person or it's a more formal setting that I become this anxious person that doesn’t effectively communicate. After the conversation on the phone, I completely changed my demeanor. I normally come across as a pretty happy, upbeat person, but the rest of the day, I just kind of downshifted and became a very blah kind of person. It was this experience that Mr. Suter realized that I needed a push out of my comfort zone. So what does he do? He recruits me for a project requiring conversating over the phone. As uncomfortable as I was doing this, I accepted the challenge, and sitting here today, I am glad that I did.


This week, my first phone call, Mr. Suter talked to the client first, and once they had the necessary information, he handed the call to me. I then asked them the feedback questions we had pre-written as a team. My last phone call, Mr. Suter didn’t interject or even sit and listen because he knew that I could now do it on my own. From this experience, I have grown as an individual. I have learned that I don’t have to stay in my comfort zone. In fact, I need to get out of my comfort zone in order to expand my comfort zone. This is just a stepping stone to becoming the person that I want to be. I want to be a bold person who is comfortable with herself. I want to be the type of person that is not defined by insecurities and can overcome limitations simply because I have the confidence to do so. If someone asked me to make a phone call earlier in the year, I would have said no, but if you asked me today, I would probably hesitate, but my answer would be a yes. That is a step in the right direction… even if it a baby step.


- Destini


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We need help clarifying Rockettech’s identity. Before we spend another dime advertising, we need to establish who we are at the core, and communicate this clearly to the customer through all channels.

Kathryn Landa - Russ Reid MarketingRockettech in Nepris Video Call

As a student ran company providing web design and video production, Rockettech still has an identity crisis.This is the most important part of what we learned in a recent video call with marketing professional Kathryn Landa from the Russ Reid marketing company in Altadena, CA. The irony is that we have an "Identity" poster hanging behind us in the call. The call was arranged through Nepris, a website that helps schools connect with professionals for mentoring.


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In September, 2 Employees of flew out from Seattle, WA to bring an HTC Vive virtual reality system to Mr. Suter's classroom. We are one of six schools in the world that will experience the unreleased VR system. The members of Rockettech and other students are giving feedback and helping to create a transferable set of classroom exercises and curriculum.  

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The State of Rockettech - April 2015
Rockettech has been an entrepreneurial tech club for nearly two years now. By the last day of school, we will have grossed over $12,000, and we’ve already reinvested $8,000 back into the club for further growth. I’d like to summarize the last two years, and share my vision for the next two years.
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Last week, myself Mr. Suter and Tyler Boes traveled to Columbus for the annual Ohio Education Technology Conference.  On Feburary 12th, we had our own session and presented Rockettech to educators around the state. Immediately after our presentation we were approached by various amount of businesses throughout Ohio that wanted to partner with us or even simply ask for our advice. But before we got all professional-like, we stood in front of some 1,500 people to have a first-time-rap-battle on the OETC Keynote stage.

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4 Critical Elements to an Entrepreneurial School Club


In partnership with researchers at foundry10 in Seattle, we've been trying to identify certain elements that without them, the whole Rockettech program would fall apart. We've had the pleasure of hosting them for a visit in October, 2014.


We've refined the list to four elements critical to our success:



Employees take less risk and try to just protect their own jobs when they don't feel safe (see Simon Sinek's Ted Talk). My employees are students whom I encourage to take chances. They dive into projects fearless because they know I

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The New Rockettech Blog

On this blog, students and the director of Rockettech will share their experiences involving all things Rockettech. This includes:

  • Ongoing developments of how we function, our objectives, and our expectations
  • Summaries of club events (presentations, Community Tech Nights, guest speakers, etc)
  • Reflections on an individual level of what we've learned along the way

Here's an example of one such development for this school year. We started advertising 30-sec spots on NBC-Lima. Here's our commercial:

Through this blog we hope to gain better understanding of what it means to be in Rockettech, and if another school district wanted to to create a similar club, how they might go about doing that. Comments are welcome!

For those WRITING for this blog, be sure to check out:

- Mark Suter


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On October 22 students of both Mr. Suter and Mrs. Klass' classes attended a tour of BGSU to learn more about jobs in the technology field.  We talked to several different people about positions that the campus itself hired, and about courses they offered that could better prepare you for a job in that field.
First we toured the room that houses the entire school's network.  It had rows and rows of hard drives and other equipment, as well as three giant cooling systems.  They had organized the equipment into "hot" and "cold" aisles, so as to better control the temperature of the hardware and keep it from overheating.  We talked to one of the people in charge of managing all this equipment, and he told us that the network they use is constantly expanding and increasing in size in order to keep up with the digital age.  He also mentioned that for a job like his, the best kinds of skills to have are mostly logic and problem-solving based, and that English and documentation skills can also be very useful.


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A few weeks ago, President Sarah Baumgartner Skyped with Lisa Castenada, the CEO of Foundry 10.  Being a female leader in Rockettech, she had a handful of questions regarding how to better the other members of the club and presented them to Lisa who, as a major leadership role in the Valve corporation, aided Sarah in answering them.
The two discussed the members of Rockettech traveling out to Seattle in the summer time and a major video project that Sarah Baumgartner and Paiten Dulany will be heading up while out there.  Although the over all message of the video will encourage girls to consider technology fields and is to be female directed.
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Near the beginning of the 2014 school year, Rockettech was presented was a major networking opportunity with Valve, an international gaming and software development company located in Seattle, Washington.  Their research department, Foundry 10, flew out their CEO and lead developer, Lisa Castaneda and Tom Swanson, to small-town Pandora-Gilboa High school.  Once they arrived at the school and got acquainted, Lisa and Tom met with Rockettech officers and members through out the day. Some personal meeting, other's group meetings, they asked about the components that Rockettech has in order to function as an entrepreneurial tech club. Lisa and Tom were also curious as to why these student joined Rockettech in the first place and what aspects were appealing and motivating to them. All of the information they gathered was used to determine if the system of Rockettech was transferable to other schools near them in the city and across the nation. Rockettech directer, Mark Suter, and some students have been in continuous contact since the visit.

Not only is this a great real-world networking experience for students, but also an opportunity for some students to escape the "small-town" vibe of Pandora-Gilboa. Lisa and some girls in Rockettech are collaborating on a video project yet to be titled. In order to complete the video, some students and Mr. Suter may fly our to Valve headquarters in the summer of 2015.
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Welcome to the presidents desk!  The names Sarah Baumgartner, actress wanna-be, hopeful writer and current president of the Rockettech club.  I'm going to be keeping a log of what we do in this  club of ours here because, frankly, we kind of do a lot and have a hard time keeping track of everything.  So...this blogging ride shall begin.
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Last August, 6 high school students and I converted our tech club into a small business. We had no idea what we were doing. This is an overview of our experience in hopes that other teachers will feel encouraged to take the same journey. It’s an incredibly satisfying ride for both the students and the teacher.
Presenting our tech club's services at the Ottawa
Area Chamber of Commerce in September 2013

These students wanted more than the mock projects, so I challenged them, “What if you test your skills in the real world, providing real services in web and video?” They responded and that was it. We knew going in we would fail sometimes, maybe even miserably. I offered that they can forget about the grade, and instead focus on being a successful small business disguised as a tech club. Everyone gets an “A”. Now what? What do you have to worry about? No homework, no tests. It was a precarious recipe. One I fully expected to flop in my face. Of course, the inverse happened. The mutual risk taking of teacher and students fed energy into each day’s class, and we built on that.

The first week of school we frantically pieced together a master plan which included a formal business plan, marketing strategy, logo/branding, and how projects should be structured. Our business plan (available on was developed with the free service from, and clearly articulates what our services are, who our competition is, and what differentiates us from them. We create win-win-win situations that benefits the business, the students, and the school.

Our marketing strategy was simple: 1) Ask local businesses to give us a chance, even if it’s for free. The Chamber of Commerce is a good place to start. 2) Show the print, tv, and web news outlets what we’re doing and ask for a story.  3) Approach new businesses with our growing portfolio of work.

We decided each project would have a “project lead”. This student ultimately makes the final design decisions, ensures deadlines are met, and makes all client communications. As in life, they can use anyone or any resource (legally) to create professional work. They must learn to find and utilize resources other than the teacher, a ubiquitous problem that manifests as a line at my desk in some classes. Project leads OWN their projects, and take pride in producing a quality service. They are no longer playing the student role, and shift into the professional world.
Students shooting a video for Celebrate Recovery
Drug and Alcohol Support Group

By Christmas break, we had more projects than we had students, making some students balance multiple project lead roles. We had to review time management and I did my best to model what good professional communication looks like in email, on the phone, and in person. Every single student, even the straight-A ones, made massive improvements in these areas.

We were fortunate to make it through the snow and ice to present at the OETC conference in Columbus in February (“Gamify Your Tech Club for Fun and Profit”) and by years end we had a nice group portfolio that included churches, non-profits, a retirement home, individual entrepreneurs, a government agency, and a personal healthcare company.

Throughout the school year, I made a point to give as much control to the students as possible.  Specifically, I let the students dictate what we did with the money. I felt that if they truly did the work, and only needed me to consult with at key points, they really did earn it. I explained reinvesting in the club to get better equipment to land bigger clients, but the final decision was theirs. If they wanted $1000 worth of Skittles, fine. Maybe this approach only worked because this was a sensible group (we didn’t get the Skittles), but I believe they carefully weighed these decisions because they invested themselves into these projects. Their decisions finally mattered beyond a grading scale.

I encourage other teachers to integrate at least or some of the elements of our experiment into their own business, computer tech, or graphic design courses. Specifically, put kids in situations where their decisions matter and their work can be seen by a larger audience. The excitement reciprocates between student and teacher. Decide going in that it’s good to fail. A sign in my room states “Fail Harder.” asking that students fail big, take a risk, and come back from it with lessons learned.
Sarah and Brad await their turn in the spotlight on WLIO
in spring 2014.

Some word’s from last years students (verbatim):
“(the clients) walked out of the room feeling as if they didn't just deal with a kid in a tech class the dealt with a professional and my entire life i've been looked as the juvenile in the classroom and then i dealt with 2 powerful individuals and they treated me as an adult because i've earned the right to be treated as one because of my professionalism”

“...there's a calm yet exciting feeling I get, and I know THIS is where I'm supposed to be right now.”
“But in the end i still hate school but when i walked into my last period of the day and got down to business it didnt feel like i was in school i felt as if i was hanging with a group of my buddies having a blast earning cash”

“...forced me to interact with other students who I normally would not have the chance to, for reasons such as grade differences, conflicting class schedules, and even differing cliques.
...all it takes is that tiny spark of curiosity to start a wildfire of imagination and ingenuity.”
Original author: Mr. Suter
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We have coders. We need creative problem solvers that also code.

My high school students will likely need a job some day (I actively encourage them to not be dependent on the government if they can help it), and these jobs will likely involve computers in some way. While they may not become expert programmers developing software, the very pursuit of understanding the 1's and 0's will make them better problem solvers, systematic thinkers, and help them understand that the consumption of their daily technology is only a fraction of the overall picture.

Some say we're heading toward a major shortage of qualified individuals in computer science. We need to reverse this trend and get more students interested in computer science. I don't consider the use of games as incentivizing computer science. Rather, I consider it situated learning with real-world application, a missing component in many intro to CS classes.
GameMaker Studio software being used to develop game design
curriculum within 3DGameLab with ties to Computer Science

Why video games?

What I propose is "easing" students into computer science by first developing their confidence through positive experiences in the form of creating simple yet fun video games. This confidence has lead to creativity in my classroom, and more students that want to branch outside of video games into more complex programming languages (which I don't claim to understand). By working phrases such as, "IF my character has no health...THEN what all events should take place?", students become accustomed to identifying and planning the steps of a game program, and have been able to transfer this thinking into beginner-level Python programs as young as 6th grade. During a Python turtle exercise I heard, Without prompting, one student tell another, "remember in your game, where as long as ammo is greater than zero, your guy will keep shooting...and each time he shoots ammo goes down one...that's like what 'for i in range' does in turtle".

Is Game Design "Computational Thinking"?

By the CSTA's definition of "computational thinking",
game programming seems to be a good fit.
The Computer Science Teachers Association  uses a working definition of Computational Thinking that can be boiled down to using a computer to solve problems using models and simulations through an automated series of steps (an algorithm) that can then be transferred to other, more complicated problems (Computer Science Teachers Assocation [CSTA], 2011). The complete definition is here.

Creating video games using the freely available GameMaker Studio for example, addresses this definition in that:
"use a computer to solve problems" - all work is done on a PC, Mac, or Linux. The problem is both any particular feature of a game the designer wants to include in their game, and those mistakes that arise from mistakes. For example, the power-up dot in Pac-Man that temporarily changes how collisions between characters behave."...using models and simulations" - The game being created can be ran in debug mode which allows the programmer to simulate the player's perspective, playing the game. Debug mode gives a behind-the-curtain look at the status, position, and other variables of game objects and what they are doing while the user plays the game. It also provides errors in layman's terms that help find the fault, aiding the programmer in troubleshooting."...through an automated series of steps" - GameMaker code runs 30 "steps" per second. It can be automated by using if-then statements, alarms (like alarm clocks that trigger another set of actions), and other methods that provide game programmers control of how the program behaves without intervention from the player, all within a pre-programmed sequence."...that can be transferred to other, more complicated problems" -  The use of loops, variables, and if-then statements are concepts many programming languages have in common. By mastering these early, students use these ideas to solve increasingly difficult problems. For example, the initial "if can_shoot = 1" allowing the player to shoot can later increase to control a boss character's patterned shooting with a more complicated series of delay-and-shoot patterns that vary as boss_health decreases.

While potentially a conflict of interest, Mark Overmars (Original creator of the GameMaker game design software) described the use of game design to teach computer science concepts as actually covering several aspects of computing, including, "computer graphics, artificial intelligence, human-computer interaction, security, distributed programming, simulation, and software engineering" (Overmars, 2004). Familiarity with these topics are essential for students hoping to land one of the one million jobs that will go unfilled in computer programming due to a lack of qualified candidates (, 2013).

Video Games are Engaging

It seems that teens like to play games. According to Pew Internet 
Research (Lenhart et al., 2008), making them prime candidates for playing the role of designer to make their own games. Teen boys and girls both play games, with 99% of boys and 94% of girls reporting playing games in the most recent week (Lenhart et al., 2008). Presenting a game design curriculum to younger teens may prove even more successful in 5th through 7th grades as they were even more likely to have played games yesterday than the their older counterparts (Lenhart et al., 2008).

Creating these games can also be engaging...when a student has enough confidence in their working knowledge to apply it as challenges pop up. I was initially turned off to programming as my experiences as a student involved the skimming of fundamentals that I didn't internalize, leading to a bunch of programming challenges that were endlessly frustrating as I didn't feel I had any idea where to start.

Still a theory

Relatively little research has been done on whether a student learning to program a video game correlates with learning computer science. Likewise, it may be a matter of interpretation on whether understanding programming concepts through a drag-and-drop design interface constitutes a foundation of computer science knowledge in the first place, and further, whether it leads to a higher enrollment in college CS.

Researcher credentials? Meh.

We educators on the front lines can implement and test such a teaching strategy as effectively as those with more letters behind their name. While more formal researchers may have deeper statistical analysis and better channels to disseminate results, we classroom teachers aren't half-bad at creating a curriculum using games as learning tools.

One such study about students creating video games as a means to teach computer science actually determined that students were divided on whether or not the use of GameMaker software helped them learn computer science concepts (Ernst & Clark, 2011). While this could be attributed to teachers inconsistently tying what students have learned back to the overarching CS concepts, it is worth reading if considering this approach.

Possible Implementations

Steve Isaacs
Game Dev Teacher Guy
1) In August 2013, a colleague of mine, Mr. Steve Isaacs (he teaches game development to his blogs about game development in education) and I will be joining with gaming-in-school pioneer Lucas Gillispie (The Wow in School and Minecraft in School guy!) to work with teens at the online Teen GameLab summer camp. We'll be hosting live sessions (like this one last night using GameMaker tilesets and multiple enemy health bars)on digital storytelling and designing video games, but much of the work will be done by the "campers" asynchronously through the quest-based learning platform 3DGameLab.
students and

2) Another teacher, Mike Skocko (and his exemplary educator site The Mac Lab)in California is
Mike Skocko
aka "boss"
utilizing student talent to develop a quest-based learning Wordpress Plugin in-house to teach everything from game design and programming to video and image editing.


While a foundation of game-based learning research is being assembled, I'll just keep playing making video games with my students, learning more everyday. I've figured out the key is to never stop being a student myself, and it all stays fresh feeling and fun.

References (2013). What's wrong with this picture? Retrieved from

Ernst, J. V., & Clark, A. C. (2012). Fundamental Computer Science Conceptual Understandings for High School Students Using Original Computer Game Design. Journal of STEM Education: Innovations and Research13(5), 40-45.

Lenhart, A.,Kahne, J., Middaugh, E., Macgill, A., Evans, C., & Vitak, J. (2008). Teens, Video Games and Civics. Retrived from Pew Research Center website:

Overmars, M. (2004). Teaching computer science through game design.Computer37(4), 81-83.

Original author: Mr. Suter
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Video Games in the classroom can be used for/to learn

Programming Animation/Digital StorytellingDigital ArtProject ManagementStoryboarding(Interested in Gamification? Here's a nice LiveBinder collected by the Level Up Book Club)

Here are my top picks for 2012:


edit 3/1/2014: now called "GameMaker Studio", check out the official "Learn" page that colleague Steve Isaacs and I are contributing to:

(This is the one I use most in my classes. drag-n-drop, extensive customization, possible intro to programming concepts. LOTS of video tutorials on schooltube + youtube)

GameStar Mechanic 

(for Elementary to Middle School. Built for the classroom. Plays like an adventure game where you earn new game-building abilities/characters as you play through the storyline.


(3D games, drag-n-drop, games can be played on Xbox 360 or PC)

There are others that are built specifically to learn the concepts of programming while building games at the same time:


(build games, animations, etc.)


(build animations)

Original author: Mr. Suter
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It doesn't take a complete game-based curriculum platform like Boise State University's GameLab to integrate what game designers have already discovered as an efficient set of game-like learning methods. In most any classroom, a teacher could try this strategy:

If you have a limited resource, such as computers or mobile devices, try creating a group of 4 quests that once completed, earns the student a new "title". Place the new title either by their name on a display board. Those students with the title earn a bonus such as more time with a resource, or are the only ones permitted to use a special item during class time.
Original author: Mr. Suter
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A good first year at PG.
Goals met:
Found the Tech ClubProfit >$500Create first client's website Win a Grant$2000 eTech Ohio video podcastingEstablish new curriculum5th grade keyboarding using typingweb.com6th grade fundamentals in image editing, Microsoft Office products, and file management7th grade - part II of 6th grade curriculum, but packed into 1/2 year.HS 21st Century Tech - Communication Tools: Visual communication in print, web, video, and web 2.0 toolsHS 21st Century Tech - Productivity Tools: Power using Microsoft Office, making an average user a proficient, tech-savvy, computer problem solving, daily tech user.Goals NOT met:
Train students as advanced video-editors to take the bulk of the editing work in video projects for $$$ with local businesses.Field Trip to Quicken Loans Arena Tech DayPartner with community college to offer dual enrollment credits Offer Microsoft / Adobe certification training.
Original author: Mr. Suter
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Link to Recording

This school in Florida has Adobe Certified Experts (ACE) that teach students Adobe products (Photoshop, Flash, InDesign, After Effects, etc.) to the level that students have the opportunity to take the Adobe Certified Associate Exam.They then have college credit and are employable right out of school...

Teachers are ACA or ACE certifiedStudents can take the Adobe exams at schoolCheaper Adobe Suite site licenses Student drop out rates fall while gpa's rise accrossed ALL curriculums
Listen to the recording (uses Adobe Connect Pro Meeting):
Link to Recording
Original author: Mr. Suter
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We are

We are a high school tech club providing web design and video production in Pandora, OH.

We thrive on "donations" that are earned through professional quality work. Our entrepreneurial spirit drives our activities during class times, not tests.

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